TRAVELLER Digest 591

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Infantry is NOT useless by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
  2) Re: that drone by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
  3) Re: Infantry is NOT useless by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  4) Re: USL Ships and Planetary Landings. Why Not?! by "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
  5) Re: Infantry is NOT useless by "'Jomama' Charles Pratt" <tminus@u.washington.edu>
  6) by Nathan & Terri Mezel <hotchip@oeonline.com>

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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:38:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Infantry is NOT useless
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960210112025.24539B-100000@kelly.teleport.com>

--
It's already that way.  Infantry in Traveller is useful for the same thing
infantry has been useful for since time immemorial:  holding land.  No
cordone
of starships or tank squadron or whatever can do what a large fighting force
can
do:  hold land.  It takes the tanks, planes, starships, etc. _to_ take the
land,
but the infantry must then hold it.

--Chris
--
 How would this infantry possibly defend against a tank or a drone?
Here is a TL-16 drone I designed. A TL-15 drone would have roufghley the
same stats, but it'd be a little less. It's still useful in proving a
point, tho.
 And the funny thing is, it's only 3m at most accross(it's a disc), so
it's not that much bigger then heavy battle-dress

Sprite class TL-16 combat drone
Vol: .99dt disc
AV: 210 all around
Propulsion: HEPLaR and CG
Electronics: TL-16 FLT computer, TL-16 flt computer TL-10+ flight, TL-16
Mod 13B robot brain(with appropiate skills at 10(Sensors, weapons, and
interface/grav)
Terrain following, TL-10+ nav aids
Commo: 30,000KM MASER 300KM Meson
Sensors: 3000KM PEMS
ECM: EMM masking .014MW
PP: 18MW FPP (3mo fuel)
Fuel: 12 hours endurance
Movement: 930KPH max speed, Travel 2790/1200
FireCon: TL16 Ballistic comp, EMS RF
Weapons: 3cm Mass-driver autocannon
Ammo: 600x3cm MD
Weapon Stats:
3cm MDC
ROF: SA3(15.12MW) Range: 1615m(short) base pen: 72 APFSDSBCS: 504pen
Total cost: MCr4.988


bri <bri@teleport.com>
The Holocost was an obscene period in our nation's history...
This century's history... We all lived in this century.
I didn't live in this century. -- Dan Quayle


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 11:44:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: that drone
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960210114338.24539C-100000@kelly.teleport.com>

also add observation to the skill(if it would count, since it already has
sensors... I'm not too sure).


bri <bri@teleport.com>
The Holocost was an obscene period in our nation's history...
This century's history... We all lived in this century.
I didn't live in this century. -- Dan Quayle

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:15:29 -0700 (MST)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Infantry is NOT useless
Message-ID: <9602102215.AA00337@Rt66.com>


>  How would this infantry possibly defend against a tank or a drone?
> Here is a TL-16 drone I designed. A TL-15 drone would have roufghley the
> same stats, but it'd be a little less. It's still useful in proving a
> point, tho.
>  And the funny thing is, it's only 3m at most accross(it's a disc), so
> it's not that much bigger then heavy battle-dress
>
>  Sprite class TL-16 combat drone
> Total cost: MCr4.988

5MCr is a bunch of money :-)

Also, what about combat Ops in areas that aren't free fire zones?  How
does it tell a local from a target?  BTW, it's a robot, not a drone
since it can function on its own, right?

I'd think that for many uses you're right, robots would be used, but
grunts still have uses in complicated situations.  The Zhos use robots
as I recall.  Maybe only in non-Zho space so the killing locals bit
doesn't matter.

That sucker is nasty, though.  The fuel is 12 g-hours?  Its usefullness
without refueling will be scaled to planet size then, but still...

This is a nitpick on FFS, not your critter, but HEPlaR should have a
huge sig IMO.  At the very least we're talking as much of a sig as any
big engine.  My grunts will have fire and forget heat seekers :-)  And
maybe some left around the perimeter as mines.

I wonder what the cost of killing your drone would be, combined with
training the soldier...

-Merrick

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Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 16:02:20 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: USL Ships and Planetary Landings. Why Not?!
Message-ID: <1.5.4b11.32.19960210230220.006a8a9c@lynx.csn.net>

At 01:27 am 2/9/96 -0500, Phillip McGregor wrote:
>The whole point of the issue is, as far as I am concerned, that the increase
>in the amount of "detail" in the MTrav and FF&S design systems is a *BAD*
>thing. There would be no doubt in my mind that USL ships could not land in

     Different folks, different strokes. I _LIKE_ the increased detail.
In fact, that's probably the biggest reason I even bought TNE. Take it away,
and you probably lose me. That's bound to be true for others as well. Don't
like the detail? Don't use it.

>Ultimately, the solution is to not try to be so superdetailed (or be a *hell*
>of a lot more careful about it!) as FF&S was. Then there will be no basis on
>which an argument such as mine could be supported. In other words, ditch
>FF&S *completely* IN ITS CURRENT FORM.

        Just because you don't like it doesn't mean others don't as well. If
Traveller 4 is to have a chance it's _got_ to attract _all_ types. Don't
like the detail? Don't use it.

>You know the thing that *really* pissed me off about FF&S (I was *already*
>pissed off by HePlaR replacing 15 years worth of Thruster Plates and changing
>*every* important factor about Space Travel and Space Combat)? It was the
>inclusion of *non-Traveller* tech to pad it out. I don't *care* about 2300AD
>stutterwarps, nor do I want Dean Drives or Subspace Sensors. I wanted standard

        Congratulations. _You_ don't want them. Others did, and have used
them. Are you saying that because it's not what _you_ want, nobody else
should either?

>Jump Drives, Maneuver Drives, Sensors and the details needed to work with
>them. Even the inclusion of tech of levels higher than max Imperial (16+) such
>as Matter Transmitters and the like) I regarded as a waste of space. It was
>never going to appear as something the players would interact with as more than
>"passengers" in a deus ex machina in any campaign I ran, so design parameters
>were pointless to give!

        And, of course, there are no worthwhile campaigns not run by you ...
 ___________________________________________________________________
  Dave Golden                              PGP Public Key available
  goldendj@whip.com        http://www.whip.com/~goldendj/index.html

  "Faith is not belief without knowledge.
   Faith is trust without reservation." -- unknown


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Feb 1996 15:32:41 -0800 (PST)
From: "'Jomama' Charles Pratt" <tminus@u.washington.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Infantry is NOT useless
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91j.960210152451.84630A-100000@homer18.u.washington.edu>


On Sat, 10 Feb 1996, Merrick Burkhardt wrote:

>
> >  How would this infantry possibly defend against a tank or a drone?
> > Here is a TL-16 drone I designed. A TL-15 drone would have roufghley the
> > same stats, but it'd be a little less. It's still useful in proving a
> > point, tho.
> >  And the funny thing is, it's only 3m at most accross(it's a disc), so
> > it's not that much bigger then heavy battle-dress
> >
> >  Sprite class TL-16 combat drone
> > Total cost: MCr4.988
>
> 5MCr is a bunch of money :-)

For smart, mobile military tech, that's relatively low.  Consider that a
top of the line laser guided bomb costs about a million dollars (like the
one they used to plaster that bomb shelter in Iraq).  So, if the tactical
value of this drone is high enough, that's a cheap price tag.

> Also, what about combat Ops in areas that aren't free fire zones?  How
> does it tell a local from a target?  BTW, it's a robot, not a drone
> since it can function on its own, right?

Why not plop Friend-or-Foe device in it.  Let it interogate it's target
with a request for a passcode (pretty damn complex one).  Granted, that's
not the tightest of security measures, but these things are supposed to
work WITH flesh-and-blood troops, so there would probably be a human
component in any situation that not everything is a target.

> I'd think that for many uses you're right, robots would be used, but
> grunts still have uses in complicated situations.  The Zhos use robots
> as I recall.  Maybe only in non-Zho space so the killing locals bit
> doesn't matter.
>
> That sucker is nasty, though.  The fuel is 12 g-hours?  Its usefullness
> without refueling will be scaled to planet size then, but still...
>
> This is a nitpick on FFS, not your critter, but HEPlaR should have a
> huge sig IMO.  At the very least we're talking as much of a sig as any
> big engine.  My grunts will have fire and forget heat seekers :-)  And
> maybe some left around the perimeter as mines.

Ever wonder how they mute the exhaust from the engines of the B-2?  I
sure do.  Could find application here.

> I wonder what the cost of killing your drone would be, combined with
> training the soldier...

Or the creativity of the attack.

> -Merrick
>

-----

 "Life is a disease of matter." --- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
         Charles Pratt tminus@u.washington.edu -- when in doubt, sail.
    "MORDE MANUBRIUM MEUM."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Feb 1996 00:12:19 -0500
From: Nathan & Terri Mezel <hotchip@oeonline.com>
To: "'Traveller Mail List'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Message-ID: <01BAF87B.8A8BE600@oe217.oeonline.com>

> I also think, frankly, that the $30 price tag back in 1987
> didn't help either.

Yes, but all three books were available separately (something today's =
games no longer do).  The Spinward Marches map was available directly =
from GDW for three bucks.

Another bother for MT was that the task system left little difference in =
attributes. In MT your PC attribute was essentially ether 1, 2, or 3.  =
The way TNE slaves your skill level to your attribute is a great rule. =
This should not be changed.

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End of TRAVELLER Digest 591
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